EP 19: Independence Day

In our traditional potluck ways, we are actually in the same room for this episode! We're talking about US politics, history and so much more while having wine and chips. Join us as jump through several topics as we reflect on America with the upcoming Fourth of July celebrations, discuss patriotism vs nationalism and throw a little bit of COVID discussion in there too. 

Transcript

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Hey, y'all welcome to United AF. As friends podcast, a show where we try to unravel the complexities of our multicultural friendship and existing as millennials in today's world every other week, we'll get together for a deep dive into how our friendship has survived and have some laughs while doing it.

We're your hosts, Amanda Justine and Taylor.

Amanda: [00:00:23] Hello, all. And welcome to another episode. This week. It's July. We're in July. So we're going to talk a little bit about Independence Day and what that means to us. A disclaimer, we're all drinking wine. No guarantees on what's going to be said. 

Justine: [00:00:48] Drinking wine and having chips.Best combinationn. 

Amanda: [00:00:57] But yeah. So independence day for us here in the USA. And basically that's July 4th and that to us. I could be doing this wrong. It's been a while since history  class. But I believe that was the day, July 4th, 1776. Was the day that. The declaration was actually officially signed and was like, all right, we're good to go guys. So that's the day we chose to celebrate our independence, even though. That's not when we actually won it. 

Taylor: [00:01:28] What happened? 1776.  The second continental Congress unanimously adopted  the Declaration of Independence on that. That's the thing. 

Amanda: [00:01:38] That's why we picked July 4th. 

Taylor: [00:01:40] Yeah. Cause we were still fighting. Yeah. At that point. 

Amanda: [00:01:42] Yes. We're going to talk about this our way and our way we like to  talk about the hard stuff. So firstly. I think to some people, they might be uncomfortable with what we talk about. And even to hear what we're saying. I'm gonna take some wine here. All right. First question. Do you believe the country has forgotten its origins? Meaning. We are a nation of immigrants. Do you think people have forgotten that? We have selective memory as a whole. 

Justine: [00:02:12] I would say no doubt. I think they remember. Yeah, no, I don't think. Because I'm. Yeah. Go Taylor, I'm waiting for you. 

Taylor: [00:02:28] Wait for me, I'll wait for you to finish your thought. 

Justine: [00:02:31] My wine. Making me have any clear thoughts right now. 

Taylor: [00:02:39] Okay. Hold on. I'm going to answer your question. But I just Googled the marquee of the loft, but his whole name is Marie Joseph. Paul Yves. Roch Gilbert du Motier. 

Justine: [00:02:51] That's a very long name. 

Taylor: [00:02:54] There's way too much name. Okay. Yeah. Aye. It was like a yes and no. For me on this one, because I do think that we're a huge. Remember the Alamo. 4th of July and all of that stuff in history, we are huge at remembering those things. But the selective part comes into the paintbrush that we've painted over everything. And that it was a happy go. Lucky. Like we just pushed the British out and that's it. Then we forget all the fun thing, like the Boston tea party. Was a result of the Boston  massacre and. Just everything. The fact that when we go even further, when we go before. Okay. So I'm going to re-, not rescind but  I'm gonna take a couple steps back and say, yes, we do forget our origins because it seems nothing happened before the 4th of July, 1776. And we completely forget everything that happened in the time that the first European and Dutch and Spanish settlers. Hit this country and started decimating its people. So you have Ponce de Leon and his trying to find the fountain of youth in Florida. And you had all of the ones who came before here and wanted resources and ended up were the early people to wipe out native Americans with the introduced introduction of stuff. And then that just goes forward to okay. None of that happened. And then it's just like Plymouth rock. Okay. Now we're starting. The country over again, but we're still the, they were the first people here. No they weren't. There were people here. Yes. So we have a selective memory. Yes, I do. I do agree on that, in that. But then. Just going back to my issues of American education. And that we don't teach the same history. University. Fully or universally. And that we had teachers who did bring up things like, Christopher Columbus wasn't the greatest guy that they taped him to be. And now we have a town. That we live in. That's really pissed that folks want to cancel him. Cancel culture. Now, if you want, cancel. Christopher Columbus, they printed it to indigenous people's day, but we have a very high Italian population is no, we still want to celebrate him. Okay, good and bad. 

Amanda: [00:05:15] It's never made sense because Christopher Columbus had nothing to do with America. 

Justine: [00:05:20] I also remember,  in eighth grade, when the eighth grade history teacher. When he shared that Christopher Columbus didn't actually land in America. I felt like that was such a huge controversy because up until that point, we were taught that yeah. He founded America and all of that stuff. And then it's that was a turning point in my life. I was like, oh shit. He didn't discover America at all. Like, why are we giving this credit to this guy? It's not fair. 

Taylor: [00:05:48] Yes, I'm rescinding my original. Yes and no. But yeah, we have a very selective memory. In that. We don't like to be. I don't know. Did we have this conversation in the last podcast or was. Was it just us talking to each other and I said, No, that was just us talking about it. He knows that people don't want to be uncomfortable. And that's the thing is that now that the lenses keeps switching because. People have done more research and more people know actual facts about these things. Historically and more people are, have access to books and education things. So now that we're actually taking a look back and reflecting on our history, People are like, okay. So maybe we shouldn't. 

Justine: [00:06:31] And remember when you were talking is also that America doesn't want to admit to the wrongs that they've done. Unlike other countries like Germany and Germany just recently recognized another issue. So I think with some sort of genocide, I can't really remember, but like they've recognized their wrongdoings in a lot of stuff in history, but we still haven't. 

Taylor: [00:06:54] Yeah. Like I said, we can't go around. And tell other people. How they need to act if we can't. Look and. That's everything with the pandemic that has brought the world's view onto all the stuff that's happening in the United States that we have kept away from everybody else's eyes. Like we all know that it's racist here. We just don't share that outside because we're like, nobody's going to really believe us, because that's not what we show world. 

Amanda: [00:07:24] Yeah. I distinctly remember. It was in, I think it was in Ms. Curtis class actually. How we were going over the cold war and only reason why JFK supported equal rights was because Russia called us out on the fact that no, we're not equal. And that's the only reason why he ever went around supporting. When originally everybody was just like, we're not going to acknowledge that. So stay away from that issue. 

Taylor: [00:07:49] Oh, wow. Was it? I think it was Robert Kennedy had a problem with Martin Luther King. Like they didn't. No, they didn't really like him all that much. Firestarter like, he was so much he's out there and he's stirring up the people and that, it's outside influence makes us change things very quickly. 

Amanda: [00:08:08] Because when you think about it, that was like our biggest rival, not Russia, USSR. And they're out here calling us out on our bullshit and it's Ooh, okay then. We have more countries. But it's honestly, I feel like we've gotten to a point where it's we're just better than you. We're not. We're so not.. We are so not. 

Taylor: [00:08:32] And it's weird though, because like I have those feelings, but I'm like, Who are we to be saying this? But then I stopped when I think about other countries and I'm like, I still look, there are still very few places I can actually live where I feel like I feel comfortable.  As much as I love the Asian countries. I still know I will be, I don't want to be the other in my life. Like I always joke about I'm going to go live in Japan or live in. I'm gonna live in China or something like that. But then at the end of the day, I'm like, man, I don't really. I think I can do all that. Because of just how. Like we're racist, but that's a different level of racism. I'm not ready to incorporate into my life and be other that way. But that's going anywhere. Like being before in or in any company, does that. When you're not a national. But I still feel like I have more rights and freedoms here. Saying a lot. Yeah. Then going somewhere else. Like Justine you're over and you still haven't had the full experience though because of the pandemic and lockdown, but we'll revisit this new year and be like, okay. So how has it been now that the world's opened back up? Have you felt, have you ever felt. 

Justine: [00:09:48] Actually I was just thinking about this. The other day was always the Asian hate crime that's going on. I was like, I'm concerned going to New York just to visit my old boss because. A woman was attacked in New York. And obviously I look pretty Asian. I'm not half and half and maybe a mask can help, but I'm just like, I don't know. Am I going to be attacked when I go to New York or am I going to be okay?

Taylor: [00:10:12] It depends on where you're going is a lot of those things that are happening are like in Queens and the Bronx. Like the upper areas, like Harlem near there. Because I went to, I visited with Eric and Michelle. Midtown. And if you would like a Koreatown, all that area. I felt more out of place. Like more people were paying attention to. Then they. They weren't. Yeah. I was also circling because they were late. I was like, I'm going to walk around the block, a couple guns.

Justine: [00:10:43] Should have walked into Just like 34th street.. Yeah. Now I'll be on the upper east side, which is a pretty safe area, but like still that, that was the, like the first time that I've ever had that specific thought, just because there wasn't a lot of Asian hate crime previously, and it was just never on my mind. And even when we talked about race before Amanda and I were like, it's more of a woman issue than it is a race issue. Yeah, it's the first time thought, oh, am I going to actually be attacked? Because I'm Asian.  

Amanda: [00:11:26] So in terms of, has the country forgotten it's origins. Yes, I absolutely do believe. Because, as I said before, we are a nation of immigrants yet we same to have immigrants and I understand, every group that's over come over to this country. He has been marginalized in some way, you've had the Irish. We've had the Asian. You have the Hispanics. The blacks. We technically stole them. They didn't even want to be here. We took them by force. 

Taylor: [00:11:51] We're misplaced properties. 

Amanda: [00:11:54] No, but I think. The biggest positive that. A lot of these groups have forgotten that. Half have gotten that. Look at where you started. Why are you then? Pushing that onto others. And yeah. Yes. We've forgotten. We just pick and choose what we want to remember. And I don't fully understand that and why. It's okay. So yeah, maybe it makes you uncomfortable, but. It's the truth. Why would you hide them? You become a better person. 

Justine: [00:12:21] I can't remember. I feel like we've had so many of these conversations. I can't remember if it was on the podcast or  somewhere else, but how immigrants don't want to help other immigrants either sometimes. Because they've gone through all this hardship and they see this. New incoming immigrants. I have no idea. I feel like it's a threat. Some of them do want to help, but sometimes they also don't want to help. And. It's just I don't, you want to help? People who are struggling to come into this country. And since you went through the same exact thing, 

Taylor: [00:12:54] That's a that's. That's like that. I feel like that happens in everything, not even just immigrant just in families also like I got mine. Why can't you get yours? There was, there's always some sort of help or. It was like a leg up. Not even just in money or knowing people, but just you're trying to get a degree, but you need help. You need childcare. I can help babysit your kid while you're still in class. Like things, little things like that. People don't want to do a do for each other. Because it's an inconvenience. Okay, that's fine. But it's not. Just just to help that person. So they can get to what they need yet. You have to fix. We need to figure out how to fix the world. And that's what this is. 

Justine: [00:13:38] This is going to take forever to try to do that. 

Taylor: [00:13:42] It's really, I feel like a lot of our discussions have come down. People was not trying to help you out. And then this. It's hard to have these conversations with people who don't look like you. Cause we did have this conversation with. To do with Radha. About the multicultural versus having conversations with people who are of the same culture of you, because you have those same. Grew up in those same situations, it was easier to be comfortable with those people. What's the good way, the pros and cons of that. And that once you get through certain  age, sometimes your friend groups. More like you. And then. And I feel like certain people certain people, I, I know. When they were like, liberal, and then they like hit 40. Then all of a sudden. They became very conservative. They're like, oh, I don't like them because of this. And you're like, What happens. And then you realize that multicultural is starts to funnel. And I'm like, It is a fraud. As is confidence. We're like sometimes it was, people were selectively. It's like a recording themselves off. from the other, so they forget. Those. The pieces of other people's struggles. Positive negative. Being in it, there's. There's just so much. 

Amanda: [00:15:04] Like I said, One of the questions. Do we as a whole, have selective memory. We forget so many. Oh, my God just yesterday. I watched a two hour documentary on the Tulsa Race Massacre. I didn't know, that was a thing until I watched the very first episode of Watchman. Okay. I didn't know. That was a thing. I have no idea and that I. Very first one was the opening scene and I'm looking, I'm like, but what is this? What's happening? And then they mentioned it and I'm like, Googling it. Did this happen or is this just part of the show? No it happened. And that's that? Not once. Did it ever hear about that in history? Not one. I always thought, Belleville High was pretty open. In terms of our education with that because we learned about trail of tears. We learned about the internment camps. So it's like, why would you go off of this? 

Taylor: [00:15:54] It's really uncomfortable to talk about that being less than  a hundred years ago. And 

Justine: [00:15:59] Whatever. Our books are published probably. White old white man. 

Amanda: [00:16:07] You know what that goes back again. How we  forgotten. Once, because that was the whole thing with the American Revolution. No taxation without representation. My biggest thing there is. Representation. There's one, this is our beer. Do not represent what America looks like. What America. So it's like, All right. You're not following What our forefathers thought.

Taylor: [00:16:31] That's where I see when it comes to those things, then you fall into red lining and or grandfathered laws for voting and all of those things that just came out of this last election, that people are upset that this is like one that this has been. What not the sec. For the TA. TSA. In the airport. No, but it was really weird. Cause I feel like they were. I'm going to have to Google it. Which, whoever. I feel like that. The TSA came out of homeland security. Yeah. Cause they were there in Homeland security. I think it was the TSA. Whichever group, it was whoever oversaw the election said. This was the most secure election. we've ever had. And 

Justine: [00:17:11] Secure as in. 

Taylor: [00:17:12] Most votes counted. Most accuracy. And even with them going back and recounting things, Yeah, there were like a little bit off, but. We got the most actual  representation and it was also a census year. The positive and negatives that came out of pandemic. Everybody was home. So mail-in ballots went through the roof and you had to do all of that, but that also made it so that more people were able to be. vote and not to say that it's The mail-in bells are a brand new thing. They're not. But normally the people who mail in the the ballots they don't count them. And that's been like a known fact for years. In certain places where  the numbers are technically  so high that this candidate. beat this candidate. But nobody, those other people might've been. They might've shifted things and you might've gone into, okay. We need to do a recount and to have the most accuracy and then. Cause like I, I asked my mom about this and you were, you looked it up. About I was like, okay. So you're telling me that I am fighting. In your I'm fighting in. A war-torn area. My country. My mail in ballot doesn't show up until. Technically two days after the election, but I did my part and I put it. It's stamped. It's by when it needs to be, but because of. Mail and everything. My vote doesn't come in. So it doesn't count. But I'm fighting for my country. I'm like, why don't we. And that's another thing I'm like, why do we have these elections and automatically get the results? We shouldn't automatically get the results. In my opinion. And those are all these things that everybody wants to get answered. Then what about like your job as he was start till January the next year or so, but the point. 

Justine: [00:18:59] That's true. 

Taylor: [00:19:00] I feel like that's another, 

Amanda: [00:19:11] Patriotism vs Nationalism. Do you  guys believe there's a difference between patriotism. 

Justine: [00:19:18] I need to know the definition. I don't know the definition. 

Taylor: [00:19:21] Patriotism. The quality of being patriotic devotion to and vigorous support for one's country. Synonyms are nationalism. Patriotic sentiment. Loyalism chauvinism jingoism. I am. Flag. Jingoism is extreme patriotism. Especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy. 

Amanda: [00:19:45] Wow. Okay. 

Taylor: [00:19:47] Okay. Versus nationalism. Identification with one's own nation. What was interesting, especially to. Exclusion or detriment. Okay. Second definition. Advocacy or support for the political defendant. Particular nation. 

Amanda: [00:20:05] That wasn't what I was thinking at all. 

Justine: [00:20:07] What were you thinking?

Amanda: [00:20:08] So to me, patriotism  is. Yes. You love your country. You're so proud of it, but you also recognize the thoughts. You can do better. To me, nationalism. No. The way we are. F you for thinking otherwise. You're not true  American in this case. And they also. If they also just. Part of what tells that they're aggressive in their way of thinking. Very much white nationalists. 

Taylor: [00:20:36] Okay. So I found the political definition. That was the Webster. No. Sorry. That was Oxford. It's a Patriotism or national pride is the feeling of love, devotion, and sense of attachment to a homeland and Alliance with other citizens. You should have the same sentence. Nationalism is an idea and movement that holds up the nation to be congruent with the state. As a movement, nationalism tends to promote the interests of a particular nation, especially with the aim gaining and maintaining. The nation's sovereignty over its. That's kind of what you said.. 

Amanda: [00:21:05] Yes. 

Justine: [00:21:07] That was about to be my question, but you guys answered it. 

Amanda: [00:21:12] Yeah, so to me, there is no difference. but I guess it depends which definition you're going for. 

Taylor: [00:21:18] Yea if you're going with  the strict. The actual definition of the word or to go with the political definition.

Amanda: [00:21:25] Then, based off of that, which was our country founded on.. All of them. 

Justine: [00:21:34] Say the same as well. Yeah. 

Taylor: [00:21:37] They call themselves the patriots but. 

Amanda: [00:21:40] Think about all they did to get to the point. We committed genocide. No one talks about it, but In order to become the United States of America. We had to commit genocide against the Native Americans. Yeah. 

Taylor: [00:21:54] Yes. I don't think they were nationalists then. 

Amanda: [00:21:59] Perhaps not that wasn't their actual mindset, but. It's basically an awful part of history 

Justine: [00:22:06] changed throughout time as well. Yeah, that's. You had the political parties switched.

Amanda: [00:22:12] Oh, that is true. Yes. 

Justine: [00:22:17] I don't. Maybe patriotism like. Stood for something else. Back in the day. Off the way. Yeah. While we wait for Taylor's decision on what she thinks. 

Taylor: [00:22:29] I'm going to defer to the group. I don't know, because I feel like. They had a good idea. And it ran away  with them because they were. They were so intent. On just, I'm just talking about the. The ideological behind it. I'm not talking about the fact that they completely forgot women and people that weren't white. Male land owners. Their idea. The idea of escaping. A monarchy. Was a good idea. It was a great experiment. And then in those continental Congress moments where they were like, okay, are we going to have, what are we going to call our leader? Is it going to be. Lifetime position and like all of those ideas. But they didn't change with the times. I think that's where we get Patriots turning into nationalists. And I think that's, I don't think. we were f ounded on nationalism, but it's become where we shifted. And yeah, we were like you're not a real Patriot because you don't, if you don't hate immigrants, like I do. I feel like that's where we've gotten to in that. The what. By definition, we call nationalists. Our naming themselves. Patriots. And I think they. They are. 

Amanda: [00:23:54] Yes, because I personally think this ramped up the last four years. 

Taylor: [00:23:59] Okay. Oh, yeah. No before that. You gotta get them to because when Barack Obama was running and they were asking for his birth certificate. And that's tea party. Yeah. So my favorite people. I miss them 

Justine: [00:24:12] she's being sarcastic. 

Amanda: [00:24:14] I'm aware. 

Justine: [00:24:21] Rest of the world who don't know. she's being sarcastic.

Taylor: [00:24:27] Continue. I was going to found Opposite political party back then. I wasn't old enough, I would call them the hot chocolate party. 

Amanda: [00:24:38] Can we still do it? 

Taylor: [00:24:40] I got no, we got to have a whole meeting. We actually stand for, and that's a lot. 

Amanda: [00:24:46] Whatever. We're here. Whatever. 

Taylor: [00:24:48] They don't exist anymore. The tea party's, not even the crazies anymore. They were the craziness of 2008 to 2016. And then they got blown away by. No, they're not, I don't know. I don't know. Refer to them. They're running around under it, but I don't. Because I think of the old school Republicans. Like your Dick Cheney or your Bush's your 

Amanda: [00:25:21] but those. I feel like, yes, they were like men. At the same time. 

Taylor: [00:25:26] But they were Republican, Republican, stay out of my I don't want big government Alliance. I don't like right. 

Amanda: [00:25:36] No. But I feel like those were the type of. Republican. Who still had like dignity almost. I feel like nowadays. But both parties technically have very few. Dignity, but. More, so I think. Republicans is only because it seems they're afraid to  stand up. 

Taylor: [00:26:01] No Democrats are afraid to stand up. 

No one will stand up to Trump. That's what I meant.. 

I see. Not the Democrats, not just calling people out because that's not them. 

Amanda: [00:26:14] No, but I'm saying like, I feel like some of those old school republicans. They called them out. 

Taylor: [00:26:23] Oh yeah. And then whatyamacallit Dick Cheney's daughter. Yes, you did. Along follow along and they kicked her out as their leader. 

Amanda: [00:26:30] But she's still I'm still fighting. I'm still doing my thing. But I feel like so many are so afraid of that. They're not going to stand up. And then when it comes to Democrats, they're just all over the place. They have no clear goal. And I'm like, what are you doing? God. 

Taylor: [00:26:48] That's because the democratic party is now made up of 64 different parties because they're the party of the other. And now there's so many different others. It's just ridiculous. They. They're like, no, one's on this edge. Everybody's voice wants to be heard. We're like, can we just get to the part where everybody got. A nice quality of life and then we'll work on all the other stuff later 

Justine: [00:27:11] I think. A little bit on this, on the election that you didn't like the two party system. And you wanted. Can you share like what you would recommend for our government to have. 

Taylor: [00:27:23] I don't have a plan. And I think that's part of the issue. I just don't. That with us having this two party system. It worked when it was 13 colonies and not 50 states. And I half a billion people. Because. It's hard to align yourself with. Any movement that is sweeping everybody with the same paintbrush when. There's such disparities throughout the country for education. Job opportunities. These are areas high tech. These are areas high informing. These are areas high. And cattle ranching like. I get hit like tornado alley wipes out certain areas every single years. And these people have every couple of years, people are rebuilding their lives. What are we doing for them? Their issues are not the same as somebody living in here where the worst we get our hurricanes. And yeah hurricane. Blizzards. Like we have all the weather, but. Temperately.. Like you don't have to worry about tornadoes. Really? We had that one weird earthquake couple of years ago. We don't all have the same problems. So it's hard to align yourself with a party that's I'm. Pro-choice. Or versus you have your big issue. I'm pro choice. I'm pro life. I am. Conservative I'm liberal. Okay. Even the definitions of those words. mean something very different. That's just so many different people. Like my version of liberal is different than yours, different than Amanda's is different than Joe Schmoe. 

Justine: [00:29:00] We just saw that with patriotism and nationalism. Oxford dictionary and then the political definition. Yeah. 

Taylor: [00:29:07] Like theirs. It's hard. It's. I feel like if we're going to have the major parties. They have options. And it can't just be like, this is the radical side and this is the you have your moderate, your. Your conservatives and your liberals in both parties and that. They each have different things that they want. But at the end of the day, the difference in the Republicans and Democrats is that the Republicans, at the end of the day, they will. Stick to their party. Once, like they have their convention in. They come to the conclusion. These are the things we're fighting for, and this is what we're going to do. They're done. The Democrats want to sit and  talk. It's great to talk to me. At one point, you have to say okay, I'm done talking, let's get some action going. What w one of our main points. What are the big things you want? What are we the party? Are we the party of people at the. Partying people let's do stuff for people. And make it. Loud. Make sure everyone sees it. So they can't say you're taking too much money out of my paycheck. And. Not doing anything for me. No. Let's fix the roads. Let's go. Let's get some job programs. Going. Let's get these people educated. You may not like what we're doing now, but the turnover's in five years, this is what's going to happen. You're going to have better. More equips people, more educated people who can do better for themselves. Let's get small business loans for people like be the action party.  

Amanda: [00:30:44] He warned us all about. forming different parties. He was like that shit is going to split us up and it did.I was talking about. Wow. Two over 200 years ago, the dude's still right. 

Taylor: [00:30:59] And then he was like, no, I don't need to keep this job. Nope. Nope. That's not how this is going to go. And that's the thing when a person has that much influence in that much power for so long. It's hard to get anything done.  It's not common. What is it called? Dictatorship? Sorry. You see that in your dictatorships where. Okay, same guy, same ideas all the time. What's. And then everybody falls. Everybody else falls to the wayside. If they're not, you're sick of that. They're not people. Who we're talking to. Oh, you are doing so great and so much. And I'm going to give you money to do this. Just make sure I, my company can do some offshore drilling where we're actually killing 400 people over here. It's okay. Like you can't. He can't have the same thing. Like stagnated ideas, never work. 

Amanda: [00:31:47] Okay. We're just jumping from topic to topic. Its all good.. 

Taylor: [00:31:55] I can never stay on one topic. You just have.  

Amanda: [00:32:07] So would you say, with all of these. Issues like just the fact that you. We both, you all. You seem to forgotten where we come from. You kinda. I've somewhat sorta. Are we still the land of opportunity? 

Taylor: [00:32:23] I wanna say yea.. I. But. 

I think so. And. Jump on this one. We're the land of opportunity. Because we still have such a high influx of immigrants. We're definitely. In the fact that a lot of them do stay here. And then we also have a high population that gets what they need from here and then goes back to their country. Because we had those opportunities to do still. We may not. Like we may sit here and talk and joke and be like, We're not as smarter than we ever thought we were, but then we think that other people come from other countries and they're like, yeah, Radha had been telling us about her. In-laws. Working as doctors in UK and they've decided they can't do it anymore. Because you're not getting paid, what they would they are. Cardiologists. Living paycheck to paycheck. What exactly. Because of that type of healthcare over there. I don't like it. He didn't spend all this time going to school and getting all this money to not be able to. Reap the benefits of it. So I think, yes, we are still definitely blended. But we're still a capitalist. So there's still lots of opportunities. Whether they're easily attained or they're equal is a different question, but we are still the land of opportunity. 

Amanda: [00:33:42] 100%. I do believe we have a lot of opportunity, especially because We have the ability to do so much more than what other people in other companies. Look it up. We're talking right now, bullshit about our own people, our own country. We don't have to worry about somebody coming barging in. Have you not done anything? Malaysia. Nah it is Malaysia Like we have the ability. You can protest. We can vote. We can, this is just so many that. Things you can do that. Others can't. And I probably why so many constantly come  here as well, because. We've never been speaking. Those freedoms. Limits. But it's never been fully like. Oh, wow. No. The fact the right to vote. Yeah, you got that. It was expanded. but at no point, have you ever gone into what does that take it away from? Now that's never happened. I don't see that ever happening. In this context in Tabasco, But I see them out. I think what if. More women to men, that's normal and mostly we have more educated women. But we haven't done it this way. Yeah. So you, don't got to worry about that. But at the same time, it's there are so many other countries out there that. They don't protect it. I'm not saying. Yes so far. But. You're lucky. 

Justine: [00:35:14] But what about I know you're talking about immigrants with, the land of  opportunity being. What about those two lives? Below the poverty line. Or, Like middle class, like your mom's story. She would have been able to go on these. The government programs, but she didn't want to be on them because they also keep you on those. So what about. Our actual, citizens who are struggling, do we provide a lot of opportunity too? 

Taylor: [00:35:46] I don't know enough about it. What I've seen is that. We have. We have a lot of programs. Issue. Is access. And. Teaching people what they are. So even with people who say I need to get an accountant to look at my finances to help me. Look at loopholes when I'm doing my taxes. Like having someone who knows how to navigate. All of the social systems is something that people really need. Like with an example we have in signing up for a COVID vaccine. And the fact that they opened up these centers for people to call in to help talk them through. When they first unraveled the healthcare system, the with Obamacare. It's not Obamacare. I can't remember the. Affordable healthcare act. They had those. I didn't call in. I ended up reading it and having to learn how to do it on my own. But there were tons of people who needed help. Like I helped my, one of my coworkers. She signs up force proceeds. From Columbia originally. So I help her easier when she has to send hers back in. When Tiffany finally got off of her. Parents and had to get her own. For the first time I told her I was in the case of this is XYZ. These are the things I'm like, you pretty much could do it on your own. It's it seems really intimidating. And I feel like that's what a lot of outside of like the child welfare program. And oh welfare. I guess that's like Medicare and Medicaid. Those are like big ones, but there are a lot of like little things. People don't know that they can also get, they can also apply. Like even. I work in a private school. And one of the things that we stayed in New Jersey, As the B 60 transportation reimbursement. If you take your child out of a public school, put them in a private school. You depending upon your school, your town. It can be eligible for reimbursement for transportation twice a year. Yeah. Bellville does it Nutley does not do it. Bloomfield does it. Clifton does it, but there are caveats. If your town does it, if you are less than two miles away from that school. I'm not, you're not eligible. But people don't even know that they can apply for these things. And I send out even with my own parents, I send out emails. Every single year to every single parent and it's not until they talk to each other and I just got a thousand dollars back from my two kids. People like you never told me I'm like, I do. But you didn't look for it. There are things you have to be active and doing things like that. I think we do have opportunities. It's just that. A lot of these places, like in your rural areas, it's hard to get access to it. And there are some people who like don't have a home computer, so they don't know these things. They don't have access to it. I don't have wifi, like so many things, and it's hard to get into those communities when the funding isn't. Put into those social programs correctly. Yeah. 

Justine: [00:38:50] I'm sure somebody is going to be like what about you as citizens? Yeah, it's harder by immigrants. But what about some us citizens? 

Taylor: [00:38:58] Even us more apply for college, you were talking about. No difference in the different loans. Applying for scholarships. We have people that. Applied for tons of scholarships and other people didn't apply for any because they didn't know they'd be eligible for that. 

Amanda: [00:39:14] I didn't think of that. Also stable because it's I have technically, I had the Hispanic and I have. The female card. There were scholarships definitely out there. But I just didn't think it there. I did not think of it. 

Taylor: [00:39:28] And then you also didn't have anybody who told you to do it either. No. So like when the school we came from that wasn't really a thing. They were. It like they were counselor, but they really weren't. 

Amanda: [00:39:40] They weren't guiding me. 

Taylor: [00:39:42] But I also feel like they looked at. The people who are like in the honors group and National Honors society that we didn't need as much help. As the students who were in , the general and the academic class. And they're like you guys can figure this out. Because I, I thought about the people who were always in the guidance office. I was like, that was none of us. Why are you here? They weren't in a, we only the people I know we only showed up when they called us. Yes. And sometimes people didn't even go that time. But the other people were always there and I feel like they needed to get help and they would have people go to, but we were like, no, we can ask. We can ask our parents. You can ask somebody else. And it was Myanmar, not Malaysia. I apologize before, because they're the ones that have the coolers. Recently 

 Amanda: [00:40:35] When was the last time you guys every felt patriotic? Or have you ever felt that. 

Justine: [00:40:41] I don't think I've ever felt it. 

Amanda: [00:40:44] I might actually agree with you on that. I don't think I've ever felt that either. I was. Okay. No, not that. I understand the feeling at the time. But I want to say after 9/11. Just. I don't remember seeing it. It being all over the school, but just like the sense of unity, even though technically now that I'm older, I understand. It really wasn't unity because we were a lot of people attacked Muslims and Arabs. Yep. But. At the time without, no idea. That was even a thing. I would say that was the last time I felt patriotic. Because everywhere you went, it was America. There was. People like just supporting each other. It's just, you saw those signs saying, that bless America support at you too. It's just everywhere. You couldn't escape it. But. I want to say, like things that come almost like a sense of being like really. Oh, God. Look at us now. Look at us like we're one oh one. None. We're not related. But yeah. I'd say that was probably the whole outside. And you know what though? The 11 year old. He didn't. To fully understand that. Probably. Like never. 

Justine: [00:41:54] I also have a followup question, but I want to hear your answer first. 

Taylor: [00:41:59] I think the last time I was patriotic. Was. When we went to the George Floyd okay. Protest That was the last time i felt patriotic because. We were coming together as a community. Those of us that were there. And it seemed like across the country, we were. We were ha we were fighting. But we were fighting together. And it felt like so many more communities were coming together. To stand up together and say, Hey look, this isn't right. And I think that's the last time I felt patriotic. Myself. Because I didn't feel patriotic after 9/11. Because I was an outlier in class. And I think I've talked about this before. I remember getting into a fight with somebody. About us. We were going to bomb. Yeah we're going to bomb Iraq. I got into a fight with somebody in class. I was like, okay. They weren't the country that did this. Were they. Because it was, they were people from all over the place. This was also Iran. It was the whole, like that area. There was a lot, but it was like, it's not the country that did it. It is a small cell of people from here. I'm like, why are we attacking another country? Yeah, but they attacked us. I'm like, The first thing they teach us in school. Like not even in school. Basic manners. If somebody hits you, you're not supposed to hit them. It's not smart to hit them back. That's a knee jerk reactions. I was like, we need to think about this. And I just remember. I did not agree with how everybody else felt. And. I like S. I talked about how we've always had in my album, always watching the news. We've also always had these conversations and Amanda, you talking about, you just found out about the Tulsa riots, these things I know. The good and bad of the history of this country. And I have a different, like I said different definitions of patriotism. I think the fact that we protest. That's what Patriots do. Boston Tea Party was a protest. This is a protest like this is, I am being patriotic and I'm safe. Versus the people who protest and aren't safe. Like Mayanmar they were sick and tired of what the government were doing and all those people are disappeared. That's not happening here. The worst is happening is folks are getting canceled. But that's not that my life isn't ending because I have a difference of opinion. Yeah that's where I am with 

Amanda: [00:44:42] See. That's the thing. 11 year old view. Involved in that my parents hid all that for. 

Justine: [00:44:49] So why don't. We feel patriotic more often is it a bad thing? No, we're not. Patriotic Is it a good thing? 

Amanda: [00:45:01] I think this falls back to. At least for me. I said previously, like my definition. Yes. I love my country. I thought of her. To an extent, but I also recognize he. You can do better. You can do better. I think to be patriotic is to fight for her to be better. And to be part of that. I've had the first and only time that ever was. With my protested. Floyd you're though. I feel like that's just. There's just something you do. It's not I don't feel patriotic. Not at all. It's just something that I like, listen, it's my damn right. I'm doing it. Okay. But Yeah. So that's why I just don't. I forgot. Feel the job. But they just don't. The only thing. 

Justine: [00:45:48] No. I agree with Amanda. I. First I love Jersey. 

Taylor: [00:45:55] And that's another thing. we are so proud. I think we're proud of that. Texas is. And just being like in and out. Are you American? No, I'm from Jersey. Yeah. Yeah. 

Justine: [00:46:10] Love Jersey first. Yes, it's great to be an American. There's a lot of, pros to it, but like Amanda said, there's so many where there's so much. Room for improvement, which needs to be done. And yes, I'm not getting, I'm not participating in that because I also don't feel like I have anything that I can do, but also don't have. As much influence but everyone needs to start somewhere. And so that's me like as being in denial of it and when yeah, you can start small and then grow into that, but it's just not what I'm really interested in. So I would. I would agree, Amanda. On that. aspect 

Taylor: [00:46:51] I feel like we don't have to be patriotic all the time. Say like in fifties and sixties and the forties. Wait, I'm gonna go get Mr. Hitler and We're not at a, we're not in a global war or. We're not in cold war, so we're not fighting communists. There's nothing attacking us. So there's no reason where we need to be so overtly patriotic, because we're now world citizens because of the internet because of media. Because of just the meshing of everything. There's no real need to be super patriotic unless you're in a conversation with someone from another country. Yeah. This day and age. Yeah. And that's that whole I feel like this is the thing I've always been in families. You have slept. We know that there are issues in our family, but we don't tell other people. On the outside. You don't tell the people on the outside, you just, it's a happy-go-lucky moment. But we all know that there's some crap going on inside, but we will never tell you, I that's always the way. I've seen the United States at prior to this past year in that we have always known that it is, you got some stuff going on and we're fighting with our own family in this country, but the rest of the world saw a happy. fake facade that we all agreed upon. Unconsciously, but with. This new generation and everything is out there and everything is recorded and everything is uploaded and nothing. There's no editing. Everything is live at this point. There's no edit. So when it happens, it's up, it's out. And there's no context. So everything is seen. So it's harder to be a Patriot. Because they're like, yeah, you're proud of your country, but they're doing this and they're doing that. They're. I'm like, yeah, but what's your country building? Is yours any better? At this point. So yeah, we don't feel like we have to be patriotic, so there's so much going on in all of our lives. Anyway. How do you have the time? The best folks can do at this point is put a sticker on their car. Yeah. 

Justine: [00:48:53] Well, 

Taylor: [00:48:53] Flag outside and be more of a something's. With somebody putting the flies live in in certain developments with ordinances and you can't do this, that, and the other. 

Justine: [00:49:04] Nothing. I'm just thinking, from what you're saying and. I do feel when you're talking to another person from another country. Yeah, I do feel proud of America. Because of the vaccine rollout and how fast it's going versus, living in the UK where  I constantly say to everybody, they're like, it's available to pretty much everyone right now. And it's only a 28 day waiting period, versus when you're in the UK at the time. Just, just recently they opened up slots for 30 year olds and above. To get vaccinated, but it was taking a long time to roll it out. And I thought I would have to wait until, cause that wasn't timeline. Initially I'd have to wait until August to get the vaccine. And then on top of that, it would be a 12 week waiting period, which is just like, why are we waiting that long? For a second dose and you're lifting the lockdown restrictions and you don't have the majority of the population vaccinated. Like that just doesn't make sense. So comparing. Especially in this situation, what UK is doing versus what America is doing. Granted, you've got all the different states. Again, I'm not going to pay attention to all the other states, but mainly specifically Jersey or, the state that I would be going to. It's yeah, I would be more proud of America and Jersey because they're doing this and that, even though they're, opening a lot more stuff, but just mainly the vaccine rollout was like this huge topic and saying, yeah, American's rolling it out. And that's where I'm hearing. Like people are getting like, wow, that's really awesome. We're waiting. And in the UK to get vaccinated. 

Taylor: [00:50:45] I have. Coworkers. That are like, yeah, I'm not going to get it. Cause it's a new type of vaccination. I'm not sitting here yelling. 

Justine: [00:50:53] I was concerned in the beginning as well. Like I was like, I'm going to wait for as long as possible because one, we don't know longterm. Effects that we can have with it. And we still don't know, and yes, I am concerned, but I also just really want to get back, like my, yeah. Viewpoint. I do want to get vaccinated because I don't want it. Hurt other people. And I don't want myself to get, yeah, sick. 

Amanda: [00:51:18] I was very much the. I was like, listen, I'm upset. I was like, I was getting this do with the data size. I'll get into it. Yeah, that's fine. The bad, at my job, people like every month somebody was getting it. I was. Like this. Yeah. 

Taylor: [00:51:35] Yeah, I know. I was like I thought of this as. The polio vaccine. When Polio came through and everybody was in the heart lung feeds all of the that's. What I. I immediately thought about with COVID where we shut down. Not even the Spanish flu, the polio vaccine. And then. That was being where your kids are in iron lungs. For them, for us at this point, it was your grandparents and like the elderly population in Memphis. It started getting to random age people like people our age, or hooked up to a respirator or a ventilator. I'm like, I'm done. Rest of the sciences. And I will deal with the rest of it later. I was like, there's re unlike. When it comes to this whole side effects thing. The people who are like, yeah you don't know what you're putting in your body. And I'm like, You takes. Like 16 pills. And they each have about 45 side effects. What's the difference. Because I know that we keep a list of this is how. Interesting. My family. People as of whatever a new drug comes out on the market. And write it down and then you sit and you listen to all of the side effects and you're like, Ooh, why would anybody want to take it in the first place? And you just stopped when you think about all the things that people are like, if people are on medications, they're probably on multiple nobody's ever. No one is ever on one. Pill anymore. If they have an actual issue, there's. People who take pills that you know is you're taking this after 10 years, it's going to kill my kidney and I don't have to worry about something else. And I'm like, you have no problem with taking those things. But when the vaccination that we know has 80% effectiveness. You're like we don't know what the side effects are. I'm like, It's not 10%, but long-term side effects. We don't know what the long-term side effects are. I'm like. Death is an immediate side effects. Of the actual. Thing  there are tons of that. Of side effects that are coming with. COVID itself. Like my aunt she's the memory one is a huge thing here. Memory loss is a big one. I'm seeing. My aunt, she's losing a lot of her hair. Do to cover that. . I'd rather have infertility due to getting a vaccination. I wouldn't mind that. That's not to joke about it. Because that's the thing people struggle with, but I'd rather have that be an issue. Then. I don't make it to thirty. Those are things that I can deal with, like when they come through. But if it's now if me going out to work and I come back and I killed my house, I can't live with myself. When I know that there's something I can do. To just, stop things. And then I stopped. I thought about it and I was like, and y'all, don't realize vaccinations anyway. You can still get my favorites. He was still get COVID after yet. I'm like, You can still get chicken pox. If you get varicella vaccinated, and that's never stopped anybody before. 

Justine: [00:54:47] And people still get the flu. 

Taylor: [00:54:49] You get the flu shot and, but that's never stopped people from getting it. 

Justine: [00:54:54] I meant you from dying from it or having a very severe case. 

Taylor: [00:54:59] And I feel like in the court of opinions, You just need to defer to scientists. And not celebrities. Because that became a thing where the fake sign, like they hear the big science that has been disproved several times because on its own. 

Amanda: [00:55:16] I'd rather have an autistic child than a dead child. Come on. 

Taylor: [00:55:20] Thank you. And it doesn't cause autism. And they're like nobody had autism. I was like, nobody had autism. Come here. Some classified it as odd. What it's been around for forever. No, they just called it a madness. The mental house. Or you just put. Dead boys does not. You just these things. It's the vernacular has changed, but people don't know how to connect the dots. And that's the problem. And I'm like, it's just. Please. Let's let the scientists come out and be the people who listen. I don't know why we. 

Justine: [00:55:58] For some reason, they're still not credited. 

Taylor: [00:56:03] you and I it's because we listened to the person with the loudest voice. That's the problem. That's come. No problem. Whoever's shouting the loudest we listened to instead of, Hey, where do people with the facts that nobody wants to read? Hi. Hi. Over the quarter. Hey, we did the research for three years. Okay. Hi. No. Okay. We're going to go sit over there.  

Amanda: [00:56:31] So that was this example. So he liked jump on topic. I had to go back to the post. We've got to do like this. No the last two questions. We melded into one. 

Justine: [00:56:47] Do you participate civically? Are you civically engaged as the most? Thing I do is this podcast. 

Taylor: [00:56:56] I feel like I should do more, but I don't have time. Exactly.

Amanda: [00:57:00] And I feel like that topic. This is how the system was created. Almost because it's where we should have been the generation to make the change, but you don't have the time to do it because we're too busy trying to kill ourselves, working to survive. 

Taylor: [00:57:14] We're trying to make ends meet. Yeah. And. You're an interesting generation between. I don't even know. I don't even know what we're called anymore. I'm going to call a say between the folks who didn't have phones until they were in their twenties and versus the folks that had phones, then. When they were babies. So we were the ones who got them while we were like teenagers. Yeah. So we were a teenage. Children of. The internet. Versus. The generation folks who were born in like the eighties who were in college when they got cell phones. So they had a better Aecon, both them and the folks below us had better economies. And we struggled in ours. So we're that? We're the survivalist mentality. In comparison to both of them. We're just trying to make it. And we don't have the time to have Our generation had no mall use size. We didn't have a grid, a fun. We didn't have an Amanda Gorman. We didn't have any of that. Because we didn't have the time. We didn't have somebody who could be that. Civically minded, civically engaged. Because of where we are, because our priorities are very different. Then did the Tik TOK generation. They're all about. I know you go your eyes about.  Their main thing is they want to be civically minded. They want to ask the question just why things haven't changed.  And I feel like it's because they had teachers. Who were like us. We were like, okay, so these are the issues, but we can't do anything about it. We're just trying to live paycheck to paycheck. Here's some stuff you guys think about. Go out and do good. I feel like that's what. Our generation. Is is going to be, we're going to be able to work. We're going to have to be a nurturing. In that look, I know you scratch. No, we're not. Okay. Maybe nurture is not the right idea. Maybe the one that forces. Fosters the ideas on other mentors. Mentors. Like we have to be a mentor type generation say, look, these are the things we grew up with. These are the things that like, we grew up as children with these, are we. Ran into. Adults pushed off the deep end. Do better. Just really used to better than them because yes, we dropped the ball.  But we're going to do what we can. But we know that you guys are gonna run with it. We're supposed to keep building on each generation. Make it better. Make us, please make us.

Justine: [00:59:47] I think that's a great idea because yeah, like you don't have the time to do it, but it would be great to see these changes. And if you can. Foster that idea that they have, or mentor them and tell them. Yeah, be a cheerleader then I think that's great. Then we can see change hopefully within our generation. We're still alive and it seemed yeah. All that. All the stuff that we wanted to have eventually will happen. 

Taylor: [01:00:15] Like we have. I'm just thinking like Stacey Abrams and. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. They just like they've been, Stacey Abrams has been in the political game. For very long time. Nobody recognized her until now. AOC. She is constantly being told she needs to sit down somewhere. Yeah, no. Those people are, they're trying. But people aren't, they're getting so much pushback at the same time. They need more people to stand up. 

Amanda: [01:00:45] So that was like episode for. The 4th of July. Speaking on. A wide range of topics, but still related to the U S of A. So there you go.  

Thanks for listening to United AF, as friends with us. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like comment and share our conversation with your friends and family on our social media pages. Join us next time as we discuss maintaining friendships through COVID. Which is pretty much this whole podcast.